Exhaustion and decreased REM

published by Paradise on Sat, 03/12/2011 - 16:17
English

I've been using the Zeo about 6 weeks and find I'm in the 16-22% REM sleep range while almost always being under (sometimes WAY under) 5% for deep sleep. I'm a 66 yo female and have PLMD which causes many more wake-ups than the Zeo can count!

Thursday night my "sleep hygiene" was unexpectedly thrown completely off when I had to stay up all night due to a tsunami warning and evacuation (Hawaii). Around 5a I finally got to sleep for a little under 3 hours. The state was still in emergency mode at that time but I just couldn't stay awake any longer. Understandably, my sleep pattern was interrupted. My deep went up to 7% (surprise #1) and my REM plummeted to 3% (surprise #2). I didn't feel too badly yesterday but started fading fast beginning later in the afternoon. Last night I went to bed about 1.5 hours earlier than normal and woke up at approx. my normal time. This morning deep was at 5% (30 min...the most I've logged on the Zeo) and REM was at 7% (42 min.). I expected to feel the add'l deep minutes in a positive way. Didn't happen! Today I'm exhausted and just realized my body might be in something analogous to jet leg.

My questions are...Can lack of REM cause this feeling of exhaustion even tho' my deep was slightly higher than I'm used to? Is REM naturally impacted more than deep by stressful events/adrenaline?

While I didn't anticipate the ability to be able to monitor my sleep during an emergency, it's been fascinating to do so. I just don't know how to interpret it.

TIA...

Paradise

Sun, 03/13/2011 - 23:48

I just found the article "Why do I 'feel better' when I get less Deep and REM than more?" It partially addresses my situation but doesn't answer my REM questions. Still, it was a good and informative read.

Derek@Zeo's picture

Derek@Zeo

Wed, 03/16/2011 - 21:04

Hey Paradise - 

 

Pretty incredible that you were impacted by the earthquake/tsunami that all of us are reading about in the news. Glad everything worked out ok for you.

 

So you've definitely picked up on some interesting trends in your sleep. Before the experts get to it, here are some of my thoughts/questions:

- The human body does funny things in stressful situations. Here is a recent study that commented on the "cognitive intrusions" that result from a natural disaster, and resulting decline in performance. While they didn't comment specifically on sleep (which I don't believe has been studied), one might hypothesize that some changes happen there as well due to stress, breaking from daily routine, etc.
- How many minutes of deep sleep do you typically get on an average night? I ask because deep sleep typically happens during the first third of your sleep, and that 7% deep sleep (of a 3hr night) may still have been a smaller number of minutes that your body is used to. Deep sleep also has the tendancy to rebound if you get too little, which might also explain the increase in deep sleep (minutes) you got on the following night.
- Your body's clock is a touchy instrument. Sometimes, disruptions to your routine may not show up in your daytime performance right away. Personally, I know that if I have trouble sleeping one night, I won't notice it in my mood/energy until 2-3 days later. 
- As for the question about REM, we're fielding that one out to experts now and will let you know when we hear back!

 

Thanks for asking the question and for sharing!
-Derek@Zeo

Paradise

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 13:05

Hi Derek,

Thanks for your reply. Tsunami night was very interesting, to say the least. It could've been so much worse. For the people who weren't in the inundation zone the biggest obstacle to sleep was the civil defense siren that blared thruout the night. We were a State full of "cognitive intrusions" the following day. Too much adrenaline and lack of sleep can do that!

Re: my deep sleep…since using the Zeo I've been getting between 3 min. and 15 min. per night with only a couple of nights in the low-mid 20s. My naturopath is now treating the sleep issue with acupuncture. Since my 1st treatment 3 weeks ago Deep has pretty consistently risen to approx. 15-22 min. per night…still not enough, I feel, but an upward trend. Last night was 7 min. and I don't know why. I have another treatment next week. I LOVE being able to track the difference pre and post acupuncture. I'm also going to try Earthing. Getting 30 min. of deep was certainly an anomaly for me. I have indeed noticed that when my Deep does show on the graph (often it doesn't), not only is it in the first 1/3 of the night, it's often within the first 1-2 hours. Only once have I seen it during the 2nd half of the night.

I appreciate your help.

Derek@Zeo's picture

Derek@Zeo

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 18:36

No problem :)

Really neat to hear about your experiments with acupuncture and its effects on deep sleep. Please do keep me in the loop on your discoveries - would love to share good results with a wider audience via a blog post if you find something that really clicks for you...

And yes, I love being able to quantify my sleep too. Knowledge is power.

Keep up the great work!

Paradise

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 21:41

Since the tsunami my REM has been consistently lower (by at least half) than pre-tsunami but it's starting to slowly creep back up. My Deep rebounded quickly to pre-tsunami nights altho' it's still very low. However I've consistently become more sleep-deprived, which I describe as getting to the point when I know not to drive. This is causing me to believe that, for me, possibly REM is more important that Deep. Just an observation!

My naturopath mentioned she'll also be combining homeopathic remedies with the acupuncture. I've had incredible results with this one-two punch when it comes to colds...90% gone the day after treatment or avoiding the cold altogether if I'm treated at the first signs. I'm holding good thoughts for my sleep issues and will shout any and all success with this treatment to the world. But I'll tell you first!!!

Paradise

Thu, 03/24/2011 - 15:54

Update - Last night my REM returned to pre-tsunami, normal-for-me levels...90 min./21%. Deep, for the most part, remains at 3-4%. Last night was 17 min./4%. I can really feel the difference today and it sure feels good! It seems to me that lack of REM is impacting me more than lack of Deep. Lack of both is a disaster!!!

Derek@Zeo's picture

Derek@Zeo

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 05:12

Very interesting. Glad you're back up and running!